Worship.Works
Co-founder of Worship.Works Daniel Ghinn in conversation with Arise Sheffield’s Ben Woollard
Daniel: I'm Daniel, I live in Maidstone in Kent. I've got a family of three grown-up children - one of them lives in Chesterfield - and I lead a business ministry and a ministry to the church that supports believers to put their faith into work in the workplace.
It’s great to speak with you today. What else should we know about you?
Daniel: I like a nice coffee! I have a real passion for seeing the church come alive, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and outside of the four walls of the established church building. For the church to be everything it was intended to be, it needs to be enacted every day: wherever its people are - in the workplace, in school and education, in the home and in neighbourhoods.
What is Worship.Works?
Daniel: Worship.Works is a ministry to Christians in the workplace, helping them to put their faith to work through the work that they do, whatever role or industry they’re in. Helping them to see that ministry and serving God isn't exclusively limited to people serving in ‘traditional church roles’ - full-time church leaders, for example - but it can actually happen in the everyday, wherever they are. We can minister if we simply choose to operate as a minister - as a servant of God - in our place of work.
What inspired you to create Worship.Works?
Daniel: Well, we believe that worship works! That’s a key message for us. Not only does worship work, but work itself is an act of worship, which God has created as a good thing. So often the world sees work as a negative thing - ‘Oh no, it’s Monday, I have to go back to work’ - and people talk about aiming for work/life balance as if work acts against life. Actually, work is a really important part of life, part of the wholeness of what God created, when he made us in his image. God is a God who works, so we want to celebrate work as - not only a good thing - but an act of worship.
Colossians 3:23 is a key verse for Worship.Works: “Whatever you do, do it as unto the Lord”. I’m really conscious that Paul was actually addressing that to slaves, who would be doing all kinds of horrible work, but he is saying that - no matter what you're doing - you should do it as if you're doing it for Christ Himself. When you have that attitude to your work, it changes everything. If we're in a shop serving customers, if we're providing consultancy, if we're laying cables, fixing cars, whatever it is, if we think of it as a service for the Lord, our perspective changes and work transforms itself into an act of worship.
When we were building our business - and trying to see Jesus as the head of it - we connected with a movement called Transform our World, which is headed up by Ed Silvoso. And through that movement, we met inspiring business leaders from all over the world who were carrying so many testimonies of how God was using them in really powerful ways through their work, to change lives, touch nations, and guide government leaders to the Lord. And that really caught my imagination: suddenly in my head I expanded what I believed was possible.
And then, God started showing me some of the things that he could do through me as a minister for him in the workplace and really brought that to life. When you see your work as ministry, and identify that you're a minister, I think it changes your faith and your level of faith: you start to believe there will be spiritual outcomes in whatever you're doing. And so since then a really important part of what we do has been teaching this, the biblical principles behind it and sharing the increasing number of testimonies about how people are impacting their workplaces when they begin to see work as an act of worship.
Just to follow up on that one. Lots of Christians would say they know there's not a sacred and secular divide, and they know in theory that their work is worship. So what starts to look different about someone who's actually putting these principles into practice?
Daniel: From what I’ve seen, there appears to be a default position for Christians’ relationship to the workplace, which is that we gather together for prayer and worship with other Christians a few times a week to get ‘refilled’ with the Holy Spirit, or a bit of a boost from God. And we feel like that's what we need to build us up to go out and face the world, face our work, for the week. And if we just keep our heads down, we’ll survive the evil workplace. That seems to be the perception - “Let me just survive the work week, staying as stain-free as I can until my next church gathering”. And that’s ok as a starting point: that’s the level zero position for Christians in the workplace. The next level is: “I’m a Christian and I can take my faith to work and I can make a difference. I can shine a light there, I can expect God to speak to me in my work, I can pray about my work and I can include my faith in my work.”
But for me the really exciting one is the next level: “My work is a ministry vehicle for me to actually change the spiritual climate: an environment for me to change my city from my workplace, and I'm expecting the kingdom of God to advance through the work that I'm doing.” That's the key difference we talk about at Worship.Works: we have this idea of a workplace minister or marketplace minister. It’s not a perfect phrase for it, but the idea is that - whatever my actual role - I’m first and foremost ministering through the work I do. I'm not just a software developer or consultant or market researcher: the work I do becomes a vehicle for my ministry in the workplace.
And as you mentioned, most believers or unbelievers will totally accept that there's no sacred / spiritual divide, but so often we’ll still reduce worship to ‘that thing we do where we raise our hands and sing’. That’s a form of worship, for sure, but when you’re treating work as an act of worship - walking out with faith believing God's going to change things through you, believing He's going to give you a word for a client or a customer, that you're there for Him first - living that every day is the difference, and you'll see very different fruits coming out of that.
I’ve seen some people in church circles talk about how work is a vehicle for evangelism, but it sounds like with Worship.Works it’s not just about mobilising evangelists, is that right?
Daniel: I think this is a really good point. Evangelising colleagues in the workplace, starting a prayer or discipleship group there, that’s all really good stuff, but it still misses the opportunity to work as an act of worship, in and of itself. It’s the difference between thinking ‘Who could I tell about Jesus today?’, and ‘How can I better pastor my clients, or my team?’ That's a completely different perspective. I can take the kingdom of God to my clients and my team - without preaching at them - just by living out those Kingdom principles. There's actually change that can happen in that team. Also, when I cover my team with prayer, that can change the way they think and therefore the way they act. Jesus talked about the Kingdom of God as being like a mustard seed which grows and becomes the biggest of all trees; it’s not just evangelism that sows those mustard seeds. When we carry the Kingdom of God with us, it spreads and takes root in other places. So yes, ministering in the workplace is about much more than evangelism.
So the key is recognising that God can use you in the workplace and be with you in front of a spreadsheet as much as when you’re in church singing a rousing song?
Daniel: Yes. And the beauty of that - Him being with you, even in front of a spreadsheet - is you can absolutely expect that if God is in your work, then the Holy Spirit wants to work with you. That God wants to co-create your work with you; if you ask him to, His Holy Spirit will give you divine insights to work more effectively.
Let’s talk about the new Worship.Works office in Sheffield. Why Sheffield, and why now?
Daniel: I’m really excited about this. We've been running Worship.Works in the South-East of England, bringing believers in the workplace together and supporting Christian workplaces and businesses that want to encourage their workers to minister for God. And one of those businesses is actually launching in Sheffield and we are supporting that launch. I'm really excited about that because there's this opportunity first of all to to send a small launch team - talented, skilled professional people - up to Sheffield, but also to grow a team in Sheffield, employing new people from Sheffield and the surrounding area, and to specifically train them up in workplace ministry to minister through their work.
I have some family and friends in Sheffield, and it's been amazing to hear and see what God is doing in the church here, to experience the amazing blessing that happens when brothers dwell in unity. There’s a real sense of the church working together for the good of Sheffield.
In Maidstone where we’re based, we have a great relationship with the local church, and we’ve decided that when we launch Worship.Works into another city or region, we really want to find somewhere in which the church is already operating: where there’s evidence of a healthy church environment that we can connect with, serve and be part of. We didn't feel called to go into somewhere where the church is really struggling and to help that but to get into somewhere where it just feels like the church is thriving, and to be part of that hopefully to continue to accelerate what God's doing. From everything we’ve seen so far, Sheffield is that sort of city, so we’re excited about connecting into that and just learning where God is going to lead us to serve and serve well, and building relationships across the church. We see that as a great opportunity.
Right. That's really exciting. And tell me more about the Ignite events you’ve started running in Sheffield for Christian professionals. Can anyone come to those?
Daniel: Yes, somebody asked me recently, “Are these events for ordinary people? Or do I have to be in some kind of ministry role?” And that's a really important question because we talk about workplace ministry - and market-based ministry - but the whole point of the message is that it is ordinary people who do that. So yes, ordinary people are welcome! If you're in the workplace, and you are following Christ, then come along, but also, if you've got an unbelieving friend, and you want them to experience some of what God is doing in the workplace, bring them along too. The idea is that we usually serve free pizza or something similar, and have a bit of fellowship over food. We think of it as a kind of meet-up (we used to call it a networking meeting, but I think the cool kids call them meetups now) and spend time fellowshipping together.
We do a little bit of teaching - usually a five-minute slot on a biblical principle for serving God at work - and we'll have some testimony sharing. We'll encourage people that are there to get into small groups and share testimonies about how they've been able to apply some of these principles in their workplaces, exchange ideas with each other, and then pray for each other. We’ve found that people come away inspired, encouraged, having been prayed for and having been invited to pray for others. And there’s been a lot of cross-pollination of ideas between different Christians in the workplace coming together from different church congregations and sharing together.
Through the Ignite network, we’re also looking to spread the word about upcoming job opportunities with us. We’d love to connect with people who are seeking to work in an environment where they can be supported, coached and trained in the biblical principles of how to serve God in the workplace, surrounded by other believers who feel a similar calling, and who pray together on a daily basis. Sometimes these roles might be in technology, consulting, sales and marketing, or account management: we’d love people who are excited about the idea of workplace ministry to come along and find out more.
I'm really excited, hearing the potential for professionals and Christians in work to just tap into some of this, because I see it as a whole new place of freedom in their faith. I'm also excited hearing you speak about the potential for church leaders to learn a bit from Worship.Works and what it looks like to communicate a more holistic theology around work. How might people in church leadership in Sheffield benefit from engaging with Worship.Works?
Daniel: So first of all, church leaders are very welcome to come to Ignite events and they’re also very welcome to get in touch with Worship.Works through our website to ask us about meeting up to connect. We do offer teaching sessions in churches if leaders are interested to have us come in and share some of the vision. I think those can be really helpful in equipping church members. I’ve been speaking at a church in East London a couple times a year and it's always themed around serving God in the workplace. And one of the church wardens recently stood up and shared a testimony of how he'd been so encouraged to go into his workplace and see his role as a minister, it completely changed the way he's able to interact at work.
Just unlocking the power of your church congregation to recognize the ministry that they're in, is such a powerful thing. It also helps validate people who might feel like they’re really busy with work and therefore limited in the amount of ministry they can do. That’s really empowering for people - when they realize that they are being equipped not only to survive the workplace, but to thrive there and be light there and advance the kingdom of God through that work. It can give a congregation a real buzz of new energy.
And what I'm hearing loud and clear is that if someone is in the workplace, and they feel like they need to tread water for the next few years until they have time to do a ministry role, there's an open invitation from Worship.Works to have a conversation, or rethink that mindset.
Daniel: Definitely. We have a six-part course called Foundations for Marketplace Ministry, which we deliver to all the marketplace ministers who come into the business ministries that we support. But we're now looking at the idea of running an open course like that so that people across Sheffield can access it. Its biblical foundations are really practical tools, and a small group setting can help us to hold each other accountable to those principles as well. So that’s something practical that we’re looking at doing to support Christians in the workplace in Sheffield.
Brilliant. And what are your hopes for Worship.Works over the next 12 months?
Daniel: I’d love to see believers Ignited in the workplace: to see that we are genuinely impacting lives, and hearing testimonies about what’s changing. One of our major measures of success so far is hearing testimonies from believers coming back and saying, “Wow, I heard this thing; I learnt this thing; God showed me this thing. And as a result of that I took this step of faith and here's what's happening in my workplace:” or, “Here's what happened in my job:” or, “Here's the feedback I had from my client:” That’s the evidence that people are growing, it's evidence of the fruit. That’s what success will look like for us.
Quickfire questions
Q - What would you like people to do after reading this interview?
A - The next Ignite event is in October, so please sign up! Just go to Worship.Works/Sheffield.
Q - What can we pray for you and Worship.Works?
A - Pray for the strengthening of the church on the ground. We want to find the right ways to connect to serve the church: to be able to listen well and hear well and be sensitive and understand where the opportunities are. You know, some church leaders said to me, “Hey, this kind of thing was on my heart.” Great! For me that says God's at work, He’s doing something. So we want to not miss those opportunities, to work well together, to serve well, and to see where God is leading us. So please pray for that.
Please pray for the group of workplace ministers that we’re looking to bring together into the business ministry that we're launching: that God would send the right people. And that through that ministry, we'll be able to support a business that is investing into the economy in Sheffield, and providing employment for people that are serving God through their work. And through that, touching Sheffield, touching the nation and touching nations.
Q - What should people read to learn more about workplace ministry?
A - We have a blog at Workship.Works and you can also sign up to receive monthly inspiration in your email inbox: encouraging testimonies from some of our marketplace ministers or some perspectives on what God's doing. Then if you want to dig deeper, we've got a whole library of books that we recommend, but I’d suggest starting with Ed Silvoso's Anointed for Business - even if you don’t identify yourself as working in the business world - the principles of seeing God with you at work will be really helpful and encouraging.
Q - What can you leave us to reflect on?
A - We talked earlier about seeing yourself as the pastor of your workplace and your team. It might be that you’re in a different place, so that ministry could be to your family, it could be your group of parents on the school run: where's that place for you? Where’s the group of people that the Lord has led you to minister to? What would change if you started to see yourself as their pastor? Even using that word can feel challenging because in our minds, we might think of a pastor as a really holy person that God has made. But no, you are a holy person, and you are their pastor. You may not be ordained, but God has called you to care for them and lead them and becoming aware of that can change the way you pray for them. It'll change how you turn up when you connect with them.